welcome to the failing reuters podcast now without preservatives or artificial flavorings
well hello welcome to the failing writers podcast uh this was meant to be quite an exciting mystery guest episode it was full of surprise and intrigue yep john had done quite a lot of uh legwork kind of building it all up getting us excited yeah we mentioned and you'll be all listening now they'll be listening thinking oh my god who is it who is this it's planned for weeks planned for weeks in advance um it was all going pretty well and i didn't know who it was i didn't know it was yeah yeah yeah and then uh dave didn't turn up yeah they've they've got their day wrong which was the biggest surprise of all really wasn't it in a way it was quite scary actually john did think that he'd maybe drowned or something or had a car crash or died in a kinky sex accident or something john said that was john it happened yeah oh well i was i was in the car and now i could just hear the phone ringing i was swearing at the phone saying i can't answer it because i'm driving who would be why would anyone be ringing me again and again leave a bloody message and then i suddenly had a cold sweat that went oh no it's today our bloody owl and then we got stuck in traffic so it was about three hours after that realization before i could actually answer the phone to say whoops sorry lads and then obviously i knew who the mystery guest was so that kind of took a lot of the shine off it and then there wasn't really much of a guessing game either because no we just did the zoom call and then dave guessed who it was yeah i think he said hi and dave went oh hello i know yeah well then to be fair john i think it might have been that we were expecting like a mystery guest that maybe hadn't been on the podcast before well yeah was it someone that we knew really well where is that but there was a link you see there was a mystery link there was a murder mystery link yeah that was trying to well as people will discover when dave suddenly finds out when we when we play this stuff and he goes it's owen um it's it's owen that was that was me doing an impression of dave by the way dearly that was very good not actual dave it was very accurate wasn't it yeah so we're gonna speak to owen in a bit but um if you haven't listened to all our podcasts what i don't know what's wrong with you who are you talking to who would have not listened to all of our previous podcasts might be someone who's listening this is their first delve into it um you need to go back and listen to episode episode eight is it eight yes is it episode seven we spoke to oregon first time around in episode eight we decided to try and write our crime fiction first pages oh yeah so if you haven't listened to those because john's surprise was to get owen on to come and review our fiction so if you know what we've written then owens review will make sense i guess makes a lot more sense actually so yeah if you get to the bit in the podcast where dave goes it's owen then you've gone too if you haven't listened the other bits you've gone too far you won't know what we're on about there you go yeah perhaps we've dropped important to listen to them first yeah we should drop that in there's a sort of this is this is how you know where to come back to it'll be me saying it's so weird there's gonna be so many disappointed listeners from off the back of last week's episode oh mystery guest that's exciting isn't it i can't wait for the big reveal that's gonna be isn't that gonna be exciting it's all about just getting people to listen to the next one just tommy just luring him wait till next week when we've got jesus christ and um elvis is he on as well and lord lord louise yeah yeah yeah definitely tune in for that it reminds me every year as a kid uh i would say something like what have i got for my birthday mum she'd say it's a surprise and i'd say oh what sort of surprise a surprise if you get anything and that was every single year yeah all the other correct answers include well if i tell you it won't be a surprise yeah there's good the those things that you hear yourself saying as a parent that you've promised yourself never so true they just come out well if craig jumped off a cliff oh my god what am i saying well the worst one i think the most pointless phrase in the english language is i won't tell you again because you're bloody well well very shortly you know within all this there are the marvels of child psychology and one thing i could never understand is the countdown oh yeah why does the countdown work well don't look don't let me get to 10. if you're trying to get him to do some of that no i'm not doing go and have a shower i don't want to share i'm not doing it well you need to have a shower because nah not no you just go five four they're off there's no discussion about what's gonna happen at the end of the countdown i have a feeling that's because you're a big bear-like man whereas my kids just sort of look at me like i quite like to know what happens when it gets that's a challenge isn't it yeah would you would you dare wait till i got to zero just to find out john or would you eric can you make it to two and then you'd be off like a shot no i'd definitely you'd be like i'm going to wait this out i'm going to see what happens going to see what happens too
what do we do now now we've blown the mystery well that's the thing probably literally the only good bit of this episode is going to be dave going but our surprise is always a good thing does everybody like surprises i think in this case no we're probably not dave katie hates surprises is she i have said a couple of times to her um
would you ever like a surprise party sorry sorry sorry did you ask her did you
i like surprises what about you are you fond of a surprise birdie um i can i yeah i quite like a surprise i like i do like a sort of a twist or a surprise ending you know yeah and i like trying to sort of i think it's a good part of reading stuff is trying to guess what the what what an ending is going to be see if you can sort of you know i was having this discussion with someone the other day actually about when when you know when books or films or series get it just right where you yeah you're guessing at who's who's done it and they all make sense and your brain's going oh my god but it could be him as well and then you start joining the little dot and they put just enough in there but they're not doing the awful thing where they over force it and kind of go oh look he's come out with blood on his hands but it's obviously not him you know like when it's like mid-summer murders it's never going to be that like yeah someone is literally obviously stood over the body with a knife and and it turns out it's not them it was mrs miggins from across the road because the guy wasn't that nice to her cat once katie knight casey and i really got into during uh first lockdown really got into elementary have you seen that with uh what's his name johnny lee miller being sherlock holmes in new york joan john yeah and uh we realized after watching like three seasons of that that the murderer always turns up at exactly the same like point so you can you always know who the murderer is because it well yeah because it's always i think it's like it's like 17 minutes in that's when you meet the murderer for the first time do you think that goes back to what we're talking about last week blake snyder's uh is there's a beach sheet involved yeah definitely because that's actually turning up on page 12 or something yeah cause crime fiction i think more than any other genre is probably very formulaic isn't it it has to be yeah because if that's the thing about if it all depends on the surprise if this surprises all that you've got um it's it's quite a challenge isn't it it's like those you know like sort of sixth sense and movies like that where it's all about the surprise because i mean i really love the sixth sense when i watched it but i haven't watched it since there's no reason to because yeah the only thing about it was this was the twist and i know that now yeah i like the way you you kind of densely [ __ ] footing around the twist as soon as not to give out spoilers for film that's what
some people get very upset about spoilers though perhaps we should do we should have a spoiler alert perhaps just in just in case yeah spoiler alert spoiler alert spoiler alert spoiler alert spoiler alert spoiler alert spoiler alert spoiler alert don't listen to this if spoilers make you mad like you don't wanna know that vader is luke's dad like you don't wanna know it bruce willis is really dead and rose but is the name of cain's childhood that body in the room is actually jigsaw a silly man shouldn't have cut his leg off at all in chinatown evelyn's sister is a daughter cause her daddy did something that he really
as his mother because her body's in the loft
but there's only one way i can finish this song
those damn dirty apes are on earth all along dirty apes are on earth all along spoiler alert spoiler alert spoiler alert spoiler
i mean there's got to be a length of time where it becomes acceptable it's different i mean if we just come out the day but we're not giving away like you know jesus dies in the end uh there's not really you know there's got to be a statute of limitations isn't there yeah whether it's still a spoiler yeah bruce willis was a ghost there we go we've done it out there now no can't do that but what if what are your uh what are your favorite twists you got any sort of that because that's the sort of you know the archetypal one isn't it oh my god he was dead all along what are your favorite twists i like what i do like ones like that though where you where you then go backwards through it or if you do watch it again or you flick back in the book to the bit go well does that make sense and you go and you flick back and go ah bloody and it does yes he actually could be dead and be doing that do you want so there's no like the worst ones where there's the plot halls yeah yeah where you go back and go oh in a minute you're attacking the mickey because that couldn't have really happened but no one really realized at the time because we weren't joining the dots the ones yeah that are watertight are fantastic aren't they see i it's another film that i really liked at the time and haven't seen since is the usual suspects oh yeah that's good that's another sort of classic uh twisty twist isn't it i never got to see that properly because it got spoiled spoiler again we just completely destroyed the film i tried watching it because obviously it's going to be really good but um yeah just didn't it just didn't work with that knowledge like you said you can't go that's the thing isn't it because there are lots of other films where there's a twister you know everything's got to have an element of surprise in there somewhere because that's how you create drama or suspense yeah but it's it's about i guess it's about having something else other than that because some films i've watched over and over and over and over and over again even though i know exactly what's going to happen it doesn't matter because there's there's other elements to keep you entertained i'm not very good at watching films or more than once because because of that reason you know what's going to happen i like to have an unknown i like to be taken on a journey where i'm not sure what's going to happen so i actually watch films i try not to guess stuff as well i think i try and be quite passive as a viewer and let it kind of wash over me so i'm not trying to work stuff out depends on the film though doesn't it if there are some films that really drag you in and there are other films that you but we watched have you seen the undoing with hugh grant and nicole kidman's series that is very well balanced in terms of guessing who's delighted it's well worth watching are you gonna spoil that as well um no i'm not because that's really cool and um it just it just does that thing brilliantly where it drags you anything oh he did it he did she did it oh my god it's him and at the end it still all makes sense but you just can't help guessing and having an opinion do you think that's why like crime fiction and stuff like that is a little bit disposable because i think like comedies and things i think you can go back and watch again and again yeah but with crime fiction because it's all about the reveal and i think that's right it's all about finding out isn't it it's like the reason why you want to turn the page is you want to find out who it was and once you've done it you're right because you know in comedies i can watch comedies more than once even though i know what the joke's going to be you can still find it funny yeah come on it's different though because that sometimes makes the joke funnier doesn't it as well it just changes it but it's still funny but there's dramas and things as well that i've seen lots and lots of times even though i know how it ends because i guess that's not the only point it's not the point yeah you do something well that's right i guess that's the that's actually it isn't it if you've if you've got a story hung around one single big thing then that's that's that everything's pointing towards that so bruce willis in the sixth sense perfect example yeah that's it isn't it that's the nub of the story yeah whereas if it's i don't know goodfellas and it's a shock when joe pesci's character turns out to not be a good fella when he gets shot there's like oh my god but you can watch that again and still go oh my god yeah yeah because it's not that's not the entire hub of everything yeah so maybe that's yeah if you're hanging on one thing then once that's gone yeah betty have you read much um like crime fiction not a huge amount um but i think you make a good point because there are books that i've read more than once as well but i've never i don't think i've ever read a sort of crime thriller more than once again it's a sort of disposal i can't really remember them either that's the weird thing yeah where's other books it's all about that it's all about the hit isn't it it's like the whole point of it is just to get to that reveal who is it or do they find out it's all the little easter eggs it's all the little bits of food that you get to keep you turn all those little satisfying moments where you find something out little nuggets yeah do you think that's why crime fiction writers tend to be quite prolific and and write a lot of stuff because people need the new stuff maybe maybe it is yeah it's like an addiction yeah they kind of need the next one the next one yeah even if they're a similar format and they hit the same beat points and stuff it just needs to be fresh yeah and the big writers they will have they'll have droves of fans weren't they like desperate for the next book to come out it's also the way that stuff's consumed these days as well isn't it because uh like not just with books but with tv series things get consumed in box sets even though like every episode of something like you say has the same beats you see the killer at the same point but you can end up watching i don't know five six seven of them in a row and they're all follow the same sort of premise we were watching one the series the other day on um tv so we watched what we thought were the we thought was just like a short three episode kind of thing but it wasn't it was just being updated weekly and they've been on for three weeks yeah so we got to the end of the third one thinking it all kind of come to a head and conclude and it just didn't we're just watching through going well how what is this gonna wet this car how long's left 12 minutes you can't wrap this up in 12 minutes and then it was like oh it's on every sunday oh what we've got to wait to watch the next one what is this i like those like tv events i mean it's not it's not necessarily relevant at the moment because none of us go to an office but those uh there's conversations that you need to have there's only a small choice of programs and everyone has watched the same thing as everyone everyone watched the same thing you know you only really get that now it's kind of sporting events don't you all well big things like line of duty was one that everybody talked about yeah yeah yeah but that's true actually and uh british bake off as well i think it's things where people watch it strictly come dancing as well
mary berry was pretty old but i don't remember she's been dead for years mate she's still presenting it i don't know she isn't there
yeah but things like that where there's a an actual reveal isn't it like a time sensitive thing that can get spoiled the more more people watch them but yeah it's sad doesn't it the generations now will grow without having a yeah it's like it is the feeling of like some stuff happening for you at the same time as other people watching something at the same time you only really get that with sporting events like you say yeah and i but it's weird like even with i watch a lot of football but these days you can pause tv so if something happens and i gotta pause the game go and do something i hate watching uh like a football match on catch-up yes i can't either you know what i mean even though i like i don't know the score and it's yeah it's all it's not you know it's not live in your head so yeah exactly i'll just get oh it's gone out for a thrill i'll just skip forward a minute oh it's similar trying to catch up yeah i've had nights when i'm like fast forwarding trying to catch up and then like all right i'm with it and there's only two minutes left nadial ruin the whole jumping thing now yeah there's there's something to be said for sort of a like you know experiencing um this might speaking of surprises this might be a surprise do you know what uh genre of book is the best selling self-help sorry fiction oh fictional self-help
um i no i don't i do not know the answer questions have a guess just to make it more fun
murder mystery that is a fantasy that is a good guess it's actually romance is it it's very very profitable to be into romance even with that though it's like it's all about it's still about surprise isn't it you know it's the question it shouldn't be not in this day and age it's all about consent and stuff isn't it being respectful so it really shouldn't have been okay in most functional relationships dave it's less surprising than you'd imagine yes fair point but however the most the whole point of this the story is like oh will they will they get together will they stay together there's always got to be an element there isn't a surprise is there because of course they were well yeah i know but that's the thing you you do know that you know what's going to happen like even like a superhero movie you're watching a spider-man film you know spider-man is going to win even before the movie starts but yeah you know it's it's about whether you can whether you can do something well enough to maintain that sort of level of suspense it's the level of threat willing suspension of disbelief in it yeah so interesting so that's uh obviously most books are read by women um audio books are different i think the i think they're mostly read by men between like 18 and 34 is looking at the stats that's cause men are lazy isn't it i think it might be yeah exactly so what genre what genre of uh audiobook sales are the biggest um uh biographies there go well it's fiction um fan some sort of fantasy science fiction i think right christ yeah it's thrillers it's thrilling there we go but yeah the other thing i was reading another stat that popped up that i thought was pretty amazing is that apparently only half of traditionally published books break even wow like even break-even yeah i think that's astonishing so half of half of traditionally published books lose money yeah but then that is quite astonishing but then i i it's similar i think it's even worse with movies like most films that are made don't make any money yeah i'm pretty sure i remember this is going back a few years though uh mgm there was a period where they only made money on james bond films and every other movie they made lost money yeah you wonder why they bother yeah see the thing is you sort of understand that because obviously there's a there's their big budget right there's you gotta spend a hell of a lot of money in order to to create a film where's the book yeah you'd think what they what they have this discussion on twitter didn't we recently about sort of originality and the fact that like a lot of books and a lot of tv shows and movies are sort of spin-offs of other things or they're like in order for something to be produced or published there has to be a sure fire uh audience already there so it's a spin-off from a successful show or it's already established author or a celebrity or what have you and i think that's where a lot of the sort of money goes doesn't it you know paying in advance to richard osman uh to write a book or yeah yeah whoever the celebrity is yeah um yeah you're not guaranteed you're going to make the money back but you've got to spend that money in the first place so people are going to do it it's similar in fairness it's similar with podcasting as well isn't it yeah yeah yeah because uh the vast majority of podcasts out there are i've funded well firstly funded by um you know established brands yeah but also have a known person in them you know celebrity celebrities to start two of the mistakes that we've made with this podcast isn't it don't have an established brand or a celebrity involved all we've got is bloody good content
oh we've got a real surprises that put exactly the uh you showed me an audi going it's a win it won't be one it won't be one no one else has got that it's true um we should see if people we're probably about time that people got to hear dave say it's owen what life yeah be thrilling for them it really would yeah and see whether owens analysis of our our first pages of crime fiction um hopefully people have either remember or refreshed themselves on episode eight yep and uh see where they agree with their own critiques yes bear in mind as well that owen has uh well he has a grievance doesn't he to um to sort of work through with one of us so that could be interesting remember that far back i can't quite place there's cracking
um so let's see if you if you haven't that that's worth listening to seven just just for the awkwardness oh the beautiful beautiful awkwardness so listeners let's see if you have correctly guessed the identity of this week's
who could it be oh you could cut the tension with a knife you really could this is crazy god just let's get on with it cause i i need to know who it
want to listen to is judge's intuition now we're back to get the back to the matter but we gotta keep on trying so fine we'll take heed from ryan to feed on his feedback like his wine it's nourishment gonna spend time getting fried we must be guns for punishment it's owen isn't it hello owen hello buddy how's it going uh it's going very well thank you i uh oh good just launched my well my sixth book in the series two days ago yes so i've seen this is the what because you you talked about this just it was just an idea wasn't it when we last spoke i think it was yeah i was writing it i can't i think i if i remember riley i'd written the first chapter and i was on the second one because i was able to explain who people were and i was struggling i was like oh i've got to set them up again it's like you all know they are but i had to do it for the new year so i think that was oh yes but did you find the tips and tricks we've given you on the podcast helped you exactly absolutely yeah massively yeah it was um you'll probably see that in the reviews and stuff from the sales because it will it will show through i would imagine well i've fully enough i've had um the scary thing with this was obviously we get the arks out early doors so they get out to preview readers and um the first two reviews i got back were two star um basically same didn't get it don't like the characters boring and it was the week before release and i just spent the weekend proofreading and i was like oh [ __ ] this is [ __ ] this is really bad and there was this is where it all ends this is a downhill slope i've lost it this is this is it and obviously because it would be a difficult book to write for obvious reasons so i was just like yeah oh god maybe is [ __ ] maybe i was right in the first place it's not very good and um and it's different there's a slightly different slightly different structure to it because you don't have to wait till the end to find out what the killer is so you don't start with the killer it's kind of somewhere in the middle but uh so that's a little bit different and then it's kind of the chase is on um so i was like well maybe they don't like that and you start questioning everything luckily there was a five star underneath who just was just so impressed with it and loved it i was like well maybe maybe so thankfully they're the only two stars i've had and the rest have been five and fours since then but um that was good there was about two days where i wasn't getting anything and i was just like just in purgatory literally walking around with my head down and my shoulders sagging and kim was like you're all right and kim was away um for the weekend so i just had my own lips literally staring at my belly going terrible oh it was awful and and one of them i remember uh cj tudor talking about on on this very podcast um because i listened to them all like you know as everyone should absolutely it's brilliant it's why do people come back and read the books they hate i've got one on there hannah law c she comes back and she reads them and she hates them every time i'm like just stop reading them it's fine i don't need that for yourself yeah so um so yeah it's done right although i did get a review overnight from america where i won't tell you the review because it would spoil the story um but she pulls one plot part and it's a tiny plot part and basically says that i am setting a dangerous precedent for women in america wow that is all the reviews about it doesn't talk about anything the review says good story terrible decision about the boyfriend and it's all about the boyfriend women in america yeah because yeah there aren't because there are no other issues affecting women in america right now that i can think of um in sort of texas or anything so it's yeah owen come on basically apparently according to this review sending women into dangers or setting precedents that are dangerous for women's safety and i'm like why would you do that oh and that's just me why would you do that i'm a bad man i know i mean that's terrible you know so i was just like oh what and and thanks for giving away a big chunk of the story spoiler yeah yeah the very ending they're almost last seen thanks for that yeah they're absolutely crazy so this particular woman i was like all right you're an activist for that particular cause i get that this is fiction and it's a very light version of what you're talking about so i'm a bit concerned that that's no it's funny we've discussed kind of that thing before though as well in different ways whether it be swearing or or what they do and how people will take umbrage against something a character does or says in a story and it's like well that's what it's a carrot it's a separate it's not the author's viewpoint it's not saying this is the right thing to do it's just some peop some pretend characters do bad things sometimes or do the wrong thing and people have their weird little preoccupations as well don't they they'll just they'll hone in on one tiny little detail that really pissed them off yeah and that will be the thing they remember have you brought a coat with you today do you know what it's quite warm here today so i didn't feel the need but uh well dave i always have some to handle what your view on vera is the um the tv show i was deadly opposed to watching it for a very long time and that's not a book title but um because i think brenda blatter's accent is so bad and obviously tom you john lived in the northeast it's so bad but you get used to it and you do kind of eventually spot there are like three geordies in it and everyone else is from manchester but there was a scene in that and vera turns around to her number two and she goes no coat and no shoes on a night like this what was going on
this podcast is part of me now i think of you on a sunday night going isn't that oh it's a coach it's always a call so what are we here for rowan why have we invited a mystery guest on well i'm gonna tell you now i've asked you the question i'm gonna tell you the answer it's because you could have cut that into just a statement really probably well the answer is basically we thought don't say the answer because now that says you've you've got to ask a question let's go into a statement mess this right up yeah well draw me to ask the question john and you can answer why don't you do it i'll answer it so john why on earth is owen back on not that he's not invited and welcome
what the bloody hell we got him back on for well he's obviously a mystery writer and i thought what better to have owen back on i don't know if you can cast your minds back to when owen was on before but we did actually ask him if he would mind coming back and giving us some feedback on the murder mystery stories that we hadn't yet written but now have and owen has listened to them yes and he's now oh booger gonna sit in judgment yeah brilliant that's what he's here for and i have asked him i've asked him to be as brutal as he wants to be i want him to be very honest i think at this point i i don't know there's something inside me that just feels glad that i've never left oh in a really bad review jeremy so there's no kind of like animosity or kind of retribution in there yeah reviewee the reviewee becomes the reviewer wow what a what a twist oh it's beautiful it's lovely to be on this side of the fence once yeah if you're in someone else's work yeah baby you're [ __ ] mate so yeah so we're turning the tide owen now gets to uh to review us we're still um we probably should mention we're still smarting a little bit from a micro fiction competition we entered and got pretty slammed oh we're so over there we moved on oh that was good okay yeah absolutely absolutely podcast as well and i thought the judges comments were farcical to be honest because it you were exactly right i know you were kind of i was laughing because you're like we've been sensitive and i was like no you know they're just idiots man it's that americanism of kind of everything has to be tidied up and it's like well it doesn't you leave it open that's the whole premise yeah oh don't you're opening you're making me i'm getting the feelings inside again well you're right you're picking at the wounds here yeah right so who do you want to start with owen we'll start with birdie shall we okay why not um i thought it was um three brilliant premises gotta be honest really really enjoyed all three of them i think for you guys to say that you don't really write crime fiction or thrillers definitely got a knack for it and i think you what i took from it was that you fell into the glorious space of being in control of being playing god and being able to just manipulate people and have their lives in your hands and that kind of really came through which i thought was really lovely um so there's a word that sums up dave's which i think is competent a solid performance no no obviously i'm an avid listener so i'm just going to take the piss out for a little bit um and you are determined to kind of catch phrase which was taking back a joke he's like shoveling [ __ ] up your ass which i was cutting the grass when i listened to that particular bit and thought was very funny um and your obsession deadly obsession some would say with hand jobs in nightclubs or in in comedy club toilets and changing rooms i think um says a lot about you dave and i thought in all seriousness you captured the sadness the seediness of the small comedy club they said sometimes soulless quest to make people laugh at such horrible little venues and i think you kind of talked about it about comedy that in the bigger stages there's an expectation that you want to laugh so you are ready to laugh at whatever's funny and john and you said in those smaller stages you know there's that horrible fear for the first two or three minutes of are they going to be funny or am i going to have to try and force a laugh is it going to be painful and i think you captured that seediness and that kind of desperation um quite well very low rent comedian and i love the way that he died slowly and in silence like you know literally a comedian on stage so i didn't if you were trying to draw those parallels but i thought that was really you know what now you brought it up i'll say yes yes exactly but what i will say of the three you've chosen the hardest premise to pull off i think and that's really because if if you're looking at detectives and you know what would be what would the detective in this what rank would she be would she be an sio obviously for those that are initiated into it senior investigating officer someone who leads the investigations or would she be someone who is like a detective constable or ds who has a little bit more freedom to kind of express themselves and i was thinking about you know how would you draw that out and you know how was she got there from i know you talked about the fact she always wanted to be a stand-up comedian but her dad wanted to be a copper so it's quite an interesting one to try and pull that off you know does she get bewitched by the whole case does it suddenly make only get back into comedy all that kind of what you know what's coming after that so there's a lot of questions coming up which i thought was quite nice and i thought you the the unique eco system of murders in a comedy club a comedy environment and actually of the comedians themselves is so unique it could either be an enormous hit or completely fall on its ass because it's so different to what's out there but i i thought it was there was enough on that first chapter to make me want to come back and read the rest or certainly keep reading so and i love the way i really love the way that you sort of you described the slashing of the throw it was quite unique because you left a lot to my imagination but it was really clear still what was going on so um i thought you did well that's grand owen that's really good that thank you what a massively disappointing review that said one star but no that's that's really interesting though that because i have you know you've talked a lot about the sort of research that you that you have to do and the contacts that you have and obviously just doing the first chapter of something i didn't go sort of too far but those are really interesting questions about you know what sort of rank would she be how would she end up being the person investigating that case um those were exactly the sort of things that uh that i should have been thinking about or i should be thinking about if i if i carry on with it yeah so thanks for that i mean that's that's really important you know i think if she's lower rank she could be the comedy joker you know maybe that's part of her sticking the whole thing is she's the the wisecracker and actually you know her interest in the comedy makes her the perfect foil to the murderer and she you know whilst the cis i always may be looking in different directions because of her innate drawn what's the word i'm looking for being drawn into that world she might find she might look in other areas that he doesn't you know that kind of classic yeah kind of getting under the skin yeah rather than so i thought it was good so i can move on to john's now if you uh if you'd like to go for it sure well i think i love the again you guys taking them out john for getting an architectural kind of reference in there as ever there's a very kind of classic where you everything you write john has a slight classicness to it and very grand and expansive and i thought this was i could see this been a really successful novel if you can pull off the the first chapter get that tension and that kind of colour and and twist and turns into it then i think it'd be really successful i think the reason why it appeals is people love to peep behind the curtain of privilege yeah that's what i think um and money you know and especially when they find out it's all going to [ __ ] you know things aren't as they as they appear i thought the setting was quite harry potter-esque the imagery of the body being devoured by the crows was horrifically detailed and colourful which i thought was really really good the twist you know that she was still alive was literally stomach turning and but in a way that allowed me to get there myself without kind of overly graphically describing it you know there was enough in the setup for me to go oh god and she's still alive to then start thinking what is her body going through right now which is you know emotional connection with the uh with the story which i thought was was really good and i thought it was a lovely cliffhanger to finish on you know um i did like tom's idea of there being like some guy just there's a massive crow walking around just killing people dressed as a crow that whole connection um but you know um that's kind of up to you but again i would definitely um i would keep writing it i would and i would definitely keep reading as well you know there was enough in there for me to go wow what's coming next and you know i think your descriptions of the guy climbing up and being on top of the the tower and everything around him and you know just i was up there with you which is it's a great i thought it was a great start thanks man what a nice thing to say wow i really did and and tom's uh again beautifully crafted imagery of a woman find herself alone in the woods at night no idea how she got there graphic details of the body uh she discovers again without being over the top which is really nice because there's enough there for me as an intelligent reader to go oh i can imagine what that looks like without you having to sort of you know just really push it at me which some people try and do and i think it's just a bit too much um the final twist i'm going to be honest with i thought was epic i thought was really good and set the shiver up my spine when i hear you know the words you know you've done well miss miss miss jones but i agree with bed he probably changed the name um you know because he does contribute you've done well miss jones and stood there with his arms back yeah and he's his little waistcoat and stuff um but i could i kind of went further with this because i could almost see it as a netflix series where women are found wandering the streets across america and they've got no idea how they got there they've got scars on their arms there you go with the american women again making him do stuff you've got a real issue haven't you can't help himself honestly soon i'll just be like no you're not coming in um i love that you know and the scars don't make sense to anyone the police are finding them and they don't know how they got there and and then and then finding out through various databases that their dna is matched murders that have happened all over the country but again they've got no you know how where they've got no recollection and then kind of like this puppet master yeah or a group a little bit um like you know maybe it's a cult or it's a you know kind of slightly hunger gamesy you know where people rich people are getting off on it it's it's just i thought it was a really really really clever um uh clever story and i think i love the idea i really love the idea actually of kind of having the the usual police trying to find out what's happening and getting to the climax of it where they go this is this is the person we've got them yeah and just then it all just falling down in tatters because it's not that person because they're also dead or whatever yeah and then the secondary climax to the puppet master like you say is a really good description yeah i thought it was great really did i thought all three would have me going to the chapter two and and certainly my world of kindle and kindle limited it's all about the you know swipe left get those pageries going um because that's where we earn our money and for me i would be flicking through to write what's happening next so i think uh fair say all three of you did a really good job and you def i was sitting there listening to them going you know you should you should you know you i know you guys talk about struggling to write right this stuff is great you've all got you've all got you know a real knack for it so go for it yeah just write it just write a brilliant book just write it wow thanks yeah let's do that yeah honestly yeah yeah just write a series of six novels oh but seriously do you think i should would i should i finish a novel first or should i write it up for netflix first what should i do is it too soon to sell it to them now so i don't have to actually bother you you could sell the treatment you could have a word with um adrian yeah and get him to give you yeah i would send that as a premise to adrian and say right how do i get turn this into a treatment to sell to netflix i don't have to do anything yeah and then the american writers will write it for you and i'll just take a feed yeah completely ruin it well yeah okay like you say you get your beachfront house happy days yeah yeah we'll do that we'll do that just yeah just take the money really good okay so owen thank you that is amazing but i feel like this is like a little sort of prey sandwich and you're about to say but is that is that what's about to happen i just you know i was for me the only thing is just is get on with it write it oh funny that easy yeah is it probably
this is the problem yeah it's just anything in front of the other isn't it one word another word then write another word then just write another word only laziness holding us back really well what struck me about because i listened to the other stuff that you write and i thought erotic fiction was very funny from all three of you again three very different styles john's the classic one with the kind of you know you imagine that's how john makes love though don't you like some kind of dressed as a rumor dressed as a victim something yeah or yeah yeah yeah dressed in a full corset and all that kind of gear going on yeah um but you know you obviously had fun writing that but as birdie said it was like you had fun writing it we didn't necessarily enjoy writing that style of writing and the horror stuff again you know there didn't seem to be an enormous amount of fun it was kind of like an achievement and a sense of pleasure but when i listened to you reading this stuff back you were all quite you were totally you know i was like this is great i really enjoyed it i was really surprised and and it flowed and what you all talked about was the fact that it was like you were just you were just passing the story onto the page rather than have to think about it and if you can write like that that's the that's the key to writing for me yeah you know it's just you're just transitioning whatever's up here just sticking it down on the page and not them to fight it then that's a great place to be interesting it's true that i did i did enjoy that one more than the other ones that we've done i won't give it a mark out 10 because we've established not very good at that but i i i did enjoy that one a lot like you say it felt like we were writing part of something bigger uh with that we should do it like shouldn't books yeah yeah maybe that's one for the naira we will yeah write a novel in a monster sort of thing yeah presumably you're allowed to kind of roughly outline it before you mention it or plotted out yeah yeah and then uh do that do the hard labor kind of thing so oh and i remember last time we were talking you were um you were saying that you're basically working on i don't think it was the the first draft but you're working on the idea for the next book presumably you're on to the next book now that one's out like well into the next book what statement well i had my first zoom session with my uh publishers yesterday about the rough outline that i've put down he was happy with what i what i'd come up with i said it was a strong story and then hopefully i'll be starting to write my plan is to try and be starting to write by the end of september early october so with a an idea for a january launch it's called deadly night very good are you allowed to tell us the basic premise the setup i believe it's called deadly night isn't it and it's it's set in a a comedy nightclub isn't it is that the idea that the original idea that you've had for this one it is i've got it's just brilliant idea about this detective who uh has always wanted to be a comedian but she hasn't right now that just came to you sometimes these things just pop into your head don't they it's interesting because it's one of three ideas that i've got for the next 12 months
it's it's always good to you know just let the ideas flow free you know kind of seems to work for me you know so well thank you man groovy that's been brilliant yeah yeah i was i was uh wasn't expecting such pleasant feedback i'm a big fan of the podcaster maybe i'm biased you know maybe they are [ __ ] but i like them maybe they are terrible yeah but uh we'll tell take it
you are really really good writers there's no doubt about it i knew i know that from your previous careers you guys were the you know you were the best in the country oh well that's nice in there it's this is what a lovely guest i did i didn't mean you dave sorry i'm only kidding no honestly you're all fabulous so keep doing it well that's the kind of mystery guest that i would like to have more often oh thank you guys honestly i'm your biggest fan i don't know if i've done the things right and i've subscribed and you know i'm there but just know i'm always there thanks man when you say someone tweeted i always think i'm gonna tweet and then i forget because i'm always doing something when i'm listening to it so yeah great podcast guys thank you very much for being there thanks man you'll notice over the next few podcasts our egos are going to be through the roof so uh just listen out for that yeah well thanks owen thanks very much guys love you lots take care mate bye
that was some good good wholesome feedback wasn't it yeah i feel i feel like i actually want to go i might i might start right in that now that's the worst thing bloody thing about it isn't it that's sort of it's reminded me it's reminded me i was really infused at the time yeah and then it's sort of good just time has drifted on and i've forgotten about it but actually that sort of revived a dead part of my soul and i feel like i want to get on and write something do it that's flipping let's do it before enough it all disappears again well do you know what do you know what might help do you remember me telling you about uh writershower.com i do yeah stupid idea well i did it did you i did what was it like you said uh i should and i did and i actually found it really useful what was it was what was it really what happened well you uh it's very chilled so you you you join at the beginning and you leave at the end is that how it works it's zoomed basically so you can see all these little faces there's hundreds of people really and i actually did the i did a was it four o'clock slot yeah uh which is the i guess the sort of american west coast slot so they're mostly uh mostly american writers but you know a few a few of everybody because you know obviously i was there yeah but uh yeah so your screen is just full of lots of little faces and then you you sort of type into the little box the little chat box what you're working on and then they read a few out you know and then you're off is there like a comment then is it like a yeah there's it was a couple of people who were very nice very chilled and they they kind of set you off and encouraged give you a bit of encouragement so they give some sort of shout outs to different people about oh such and such is writing her that's it yeah history thriller about a dog that can do well that's it and then it's just silence and you see all these people writing but there's something about the fact that you feel like this little community and it it's something quite nice about it and also you feel like i don't know i mean they're they're obviously not watching you aren't they but you feel like you can't yeah yeah yeah because otherwise or play with your phone yeah because they'll notice that then go yeah judge you in some way but i recorded the end of it you want to hear the end of it because they had really lovely like voices as well welcome back how was that session for you did you hit a word count did you hit that brick wall did you finish that thing you've been putting off for ages let us know in the chat exactly what you got done in the session welcome back let's see what did you do today oh jerome you're getting some praise for your nice soft entrance backhand nice soft what did you say nice soft something else soft entrance beckoning oh yeah she did say that didn't she yeah the nice soft music back in austin said they struggled this morning and had to leap out so no problem if you're in the flow we see you back here tomorrow later and megan made some progress today so they read out a few thousand words written a thousand words show off some memoir writing about it yeah yeah so people are obviously like showing off in the chat wow your first trip to paris sounds lovely and carrie you rewrote i seen it and it went really well you know what it feels like um do you remember watching um take heart on the dead kids in the 1980s and they'd go to the gallery yeah and kids would send really rubbish pictures in um and they got so this is from stephanie who's drawn the sunset there in uh crayon and milk bottle tops lovely that great capture of the line and then they move on to the next one it just it has that same feel of like lovely everybody gets congratulated chilled positivity anyway i'll play a tiny bit more because they they just ask yeah i'm staying next to amy sale and i wanted to know how was today's session for you um so i got a little distracted with a related writing task on the same novel so i'm just glad to be here i'm actually on vacation in oregon right now cool oh well good luck that sounds really great thanks for writing with us that sounds really great there's obviously there's like hundreds of people what's really nice is you know that you're not going to get picked on because this you know there's that many people uh all all doing at the same time who do you want to hear from today yeah i'd like to call on uh john rand how was your session with uh you've been sitting across me yeah hey hi um uh my session uh didn't carry high voice i intended it to i was um i was supposed to be working on my book but i ended up doing some other stuff i am a brilliant procrastinator i'm very good at thinking of as many ways as possible to avoid what i'm actually supposed to be doing definitely definitely i can relate and uh what's your book about it well the book is uh it's a kind of time traveling comedy sci-fi about um about this washed-up ex-scientist from the future who steals a time machine uh in order to seek revenge on a man who ruined his career but the time machine's real purpose was to save the human race by sending someone back in back to our time to warn humanity of uh of the impending environmental catastrophe about to destroy the world fantastic so he's using it for his own purposes but uh exactly yeah i love it i love it that's great that's fantastic where are you calling us from today john i'm in yorkshire in the north of england fantastic so it's five in the afternoon um which is is my writing time because i get a couple of hours where i don't have to ferry the kids anywhere or or do chores so i just get to sneak off for a couple of hours as you should yeah definitely well glad you joined us here john thanks for having me it's been great of course yeah it is now 9 00 a.m and off it goes i know i know him do you know him yeah yeah i've heard him before i sent you i sent you a little what's up yesterday saying uh that i'm a [ __ ] idiot oh yeah why why would that be why am i a [ __ ] idiot is it a haircut for so many reasons okay so there's there were literally hundreds of writers and you didn't gather the failing writers oh there you go there you go didn't even cross my mind yeah i could have at that point i could have lied and said i'm actually doing a task for a podcast yeah that were you wearing your failing podcast t-shirt though weren't you no why so but you had your name on zoomers john randall failing writer's podcast didn't you no right okay i think you maybe need to go back yeah so everyone knows about your blooming time travelling book but uh not that they're gonna pick yeah out of the hundreds of people in there again that was just the one yeah that's lucky breaks exactly it was a great opportunity yeah never mind it is one of those sort of once in a lifetime opportunities that you get to publicize something that's quite difficult to get just totally free advertising i'm sure people i'm sure those women who are the exact target massively in the team it's the kind of once in a lifetime opportunity that i'm sure will come around again soon oh yeah i would imagine next week yeah oh yeah certainly yeah yeah so um yeah despite having worked in marketing uh didn't do a particularly good job you know i think you might have convinced us um i'm happily speaking on behalf of dave you've convinced us that we should book in a slot together and uh yeah well yeah we shouldn't should we should we do it together then or we should yeah um shall we i think we should do that now the kids are back at school
uh next week on the podcast we've got uh rosie wilby uh an interview with her that we've done uh she was very yes that was really fun she's gonna talk about her book and podcast uh the breakup monologues yeah that'll be interesting tune in as well tune in subscribe tune in listen to the next one and tell your friends yes because we desperately need marketing because recently we've missed out on quite a few massive opportunities one in particular that i can think of yeah yeah get in touch with us it's nice to hear from you at least you've done enough yeah john johnson i'm making up for but until then good people of the world thanks for listening au revoir thanks a lot see you soon take care
oh look at us doing a swift ending shut that down you see i didn't come back and say bye at the end
where's everybody gone
I'm OMJ Ryan.
I spent the first twenty years of my career working in the radio and entertainment industry across the UK and Australia, collaborating with household names, celebrities and music icons and accumulating a host of international writing and radio awards, before taking the leap into full time writing in 2018.
Since then, I’ve not looked back, writing stories for people who devour exciting, fast-paced crime thrillers by the pool, on their commute - or those rare moments of downtime before bed.
My mission is to entertain you from the first page to the last.
Born and bred in Yorkshire, I've lived and worked in a variety of cities across the UK including Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield and Glasgow, as well as Sydney and Melbourne in Australia, before settling in the north east of England with my wife Kim and young son Vaughan.